I went to an SCA event yesterday that, honestly, I'd been dreading. There were several reasons that I didn't want to go, and I'm happy to say that I had a really good time. I planned for what I saw as potential land-mines, found a wonderful wing-woman, and even after she left, I was able to enjoy activities that I haven't really done much of lately, even if I had limited time left before needing to go home.
Something came back sharper to light for me recently regarding the SCA, though. I really, truly, hate the idea of people actively seeking awards. What I mean is that I hate the idea of people doing things specifically because they've been told that the thing is a necessary step to getting the award.
The apprentice/protege/squire system, as a step to getting a peerage, sickens me. Becoming a squire to become a better fighter? Great! That seems perfect. Becoming a protege to find better ways to serve? To learn how to set-up a court, or how to autocrat an event? Yes! Becoming an apprentice to learn your craft better? Yes. That's what it's meant to be.
So...why do we have cooks apprenticing to seamstresses? Why do we have leatherworkers apprenticing to brewers? Why are people apprenticing to people who don't know anything about the apprentices craft? Not because the apprentice can learn more about their craft...but because they can learn about how to become a peer. Because they can learn what hoops they need to jump through, and have someone speak for them and put them forward in the peerage.
Really?
Honestly, I used to idolize peers. Now? I'm more likely to view the peerages with disappointment.
I miss the way I used to see them. Knights were shining examples of chivalry. Pelicans were people who selflessly gave of themselves to make the SCA work. Laurels were artists who were passionate about their crafts and made the society beautiful, and shared their knowledge out of love.
Now? I see the Chivalry as an "old boys club" where you can only get in if you know the right people and have jumped faithfully through their hoops.
I see the Pelicans (as a peerage, not necessarily all the individuals involved) as people who volunteered in specifically visibly times and places, to look good to the people who could give them the golden apple of a high-level award.
I see Laurels (again, as a group, not necessarily individuals) as a petty political group who hold people who want to join to impossibly high standards.
I know there are people who genuinely deserve the honor of being recognized as peers. I love the fact that some people are recognized for the shining examples they truly are.
I hate the idea that some of those people want the award so badly that they will go through the petty hoops that they are told are required in order to get the award. In my eyes, that tarnishes it...and makes me think less of both the award and the person.
It's sad, because there are people I care deeply for who are on these paths and jumping through these hoops, and are thoroughly disheartened when they see others, who are less developed in their craft, but more politically popular, receiving the accolades they have been seeking, often for years. Some of these people talk about giving up on their crafts altogether, if they don't get the peerage they have been seeking.
This may not be the actual truth of what is happening in the peerages, but it's what it looks like from the outside. I know it's not just my kingdom, because the friends I see going through this span multiple kingdoms. As a society, it's something that is worth a look...and possibly some discussion in the peerages.
Something came back sharper to light for me recently regarding the SCA, though. I really, truly, hate the idea of people actively seeking awards. What I mean is that I hate the idea of people doing things specifically because they've been told that the thing is a necessary step to getting the award.
The apprentice/protege/squire system, as a step to getting a peerage, sickens me. Becoming a squire to become a better fighter? Great! That seems perfect. Becoming a protege to find better ways to serve? To learn how to set-up a court, or how to autocrat an event? Yes! Becoming an apprentice to learn your craft better? Yes. That's what it's meant to be.
So...why do we have cooks apprenticing to seamstresses? Why do we have leatherworkers apprenticing to brewers? Why are people apprenticing to people who don't know anything about the apprentices craft? Not because the apprentice can learn more about their craft...but because they can learn about how to become a peer. Because they can learn what hoops they need to jump through, and have someone speak for them and put them forward in the peerage.
Really?
Honestly, I used to idolize peers. Now? I'm more likely to view the peerages with disappointment.
I miss the way I used to see them. Knights were shining examples of chivalry. Pelicans were people who selflessly gave of themselves to make the SCA work. Laurels were artists who were passionate about their crafts and made the society beautiful, and shared their knowledge out of love.
Now? I see the Chivalry as an "old boys club" where you can only get in if you know the right people and have jumped faithfully through their hoops.
I see the Pelicans (as a peerage, not necessarily all the individuals involved) as people who volunteered in specifically visibly times and places, to look good to the people who could give them the golden apple of a high-level award.
I see Laurels (again, as a group, not necessarily individuals) as a petty political group who hold people who want to join to impossibly high standards.
I know there are people who genuinely deserve the honor of being recognized as peers. I love the fact that some people are recognized for the shining examples they truly are.
I hate the idea that some of those people want the award so badly that they will go through the petty hoops that they are told are required in order to get the award. In my eyes, that tarnishes it...and makes me think less of both the award and the person.
It's sad, because there are people I care deeply for who are on these paths and jumping through these hoops, and are thoroughly disheartened when they see others, who are less developed in their craft, but more politically popular, receiving the accolades they have been seeking, often for years. Some of these people talk about giving up on their crafts altogether, if they don't get the peerage they have been seeking.
This may not be the actual truth of what is happening in the peerages, but it's what it looks like from the outside. I know it's not just my kingdom, because the friends I see going through this span multiple kingdoms. As a society, it's something that is worth a look...and possibly some discussion in the peerages.
Yep.
ReplyDeleteAdd to that the "peers" (Lowercase and scare quotes intended) who have made it plain that their peerages and courtesy are mere costume accessories, and only apply in the public eye when they are being watched.
I am sorry you've experienced this kind of disillusionment. The only thing I can say is as long as there's a system of reward, there will always be people that claim this as their primary motivation. On my journey, I've come to believe that the only way to change things for the better in this game is to both be the change, and work from the inside. Maybe in the years to come, I can help keep this from happening to someone else. I hope you get your joy back. (full disclosure, I'm a Pelican-elect. I've been announced for elevation but my elevation hasn't happened yet.)
ReplyDeleteAs a heavy Fighter and Archer I've met quite a few Knights, Laurels and Pelicans, most of which come across as stuck up and pompous. I have also met a good handful or two who seem to have legitimately earned theirs and are quite active in teaching others the craft, not the loopholes. I agree that this "outside appearance" needs to be examined and repaired if possible. "The Old Boys Club" aspects of any group can have serious negative repercussions as time and society pass through the ages, look at politics and religion.
ReplyDeleteI know someone who has been in the SCA for 35 years is the best in what she does and it has been made clear by the laurels of our kingdom that they will never elevate her. This woman has devoted a lot of time teaching her craft to anyone wanting to learn but continues to be shunned not only by the laurels but as the royalty over the years because they don't want to set on the laurels toes either.
ReplyDeletewe all know people like that ,,,and it is sad
DeleteI'm a bard, bookbinder, and leatherworker (amongst other things) apprenticed to a dance Laurel. Why? Because I find her a worthy mentor and friend and value her advice on life and social matters...the things I have trouble learning from trial and error and books. Can she teach me advanced leatherwork techniques? No. But she can read and proof my research papers and give me advice on who to talk to about x skill and be a supporting face in the audience when I perform. You don't have to apprentice to someone who does your exact crafts to find value in working with them....and in my case, where my crafts are so varied, it might be impossible for me to find someone who does all of them! Feel free to shun those actively seeking peerage or those who don't live up to the peerage standards if you wish, but the exact nature of a peerage-dependent relationship is highly dependent on the two individuals involved!
ReplyDeleteSo if you wanted help for your chosen art or science and there wasn't a peer who did that, would you just languish off on the side waiting for one to show up, or would you ask someone you know is a peer for help? Sometimes there is not a peer who practices a given art available to guide someone. Sometimes it's that the person seeking to learn has known the person who is guiding them and feels more comfortable working with them than with someone they don't know well. If the peer in question is doing their job, they are working to help that person grow in their chosen art, regardless of their own. They can reach out to others who *do* have the knowledge for help, and one doesn't have to be a specialist in any area to encourage someone else to stretch and grow, and provide advice on entering art/sci competitions and documentation. But the point is, there are any number of issues that could lead to such an arrangement besides someone who is just award-seeking.
ReplyDeleteWhy does the person doing the guiding need to be a peer?
DeleteThey don't. But asking a Laurel about doing better art-Sci documentation or a MoD about rapier techniques seems a good place to start if you don't know someone (Peer or not) who can provide solid advice on the subject.
DeleteI agree 10,000%. Watching the members of the "Old Boys Club" prance around and fondle each other with award after award is pretty sickening.
ReplyDeleteI'm fairly new to the SCA, and haven't gotten to the point of even considering the possibility of becoming an apprentice, much less a laurel (I'm not young, either, so chances are excellent that I won't ever arrive at that point.) Why do you think those laurels are shutting out people who deserve awards? Is it fear of the competition, or just wanting to avoid change?
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I'm not even willing to speculate on why.
DeleteIn Trimaris (and I think most Kingdoms) , Peerages recommend awards but so can the general populace. The Crown decides to act on recommendations or not (though they usually do). In Peerage meetings, we typically only poll whether we, as a group, offer that group's recommendation towards adding someone to that Peerage. The Crown hears any discussion (which is usually fairly polite) about a candidate's accomplishments and comportment and take the poll results and our discussion as council in deciding to give a Peerage. Other times a person is brought up for discussion (usually by their Peer or another advocate, but sometimes the Crown) who isn't quite ready to be an independent mentor themselves but has shown great promise and growth, and we simply give commentary to the Crown about why we'd support them receiving a particular award. The Crown also receives letters from anyone who cares to write one requesting individuals be recognized with awards. The Crown simply can't know and see everybody and they need the help these recommendations provide to be able to get recognition to deserving folks. As a rule, we (the Peerages) don't really have the ability to shut people out of awards. Even the rare negative commentary is usually constructive criticism, delivered to the person's advocate so that they can help that individual improve their skills. Sadly, the most common reason for someone deserving *not* receiving an award is that nobody thought to tell the Crown that they thought someone should receive one or that everybody already assumed they had that award.
DeleteIn Atenveldt, the populace puts in recommendations for awards. It doesn't matter if you're a Peer or not in that regard. Anyone can write a recommendation.
DeleteI am up in years yet new to the SCA and have a wonderful mentor helping me to learn the ropes. i know that I will never have a peerage of any kind. I will probably be lucky to get any award of any kind. and that is really not important to me. But what i do see is that the peerage can hold people like my mentor to such a high standard that they can never achive the goals they set for them selves. I over heard one of my mentors peers tell them that they would have to do collage level work to even get noticed by their peer.If that is the case I will never meet that kind of goal. It so deshartining to my mentor that they have said they are ready to just give up. to me that is sad. This mentor has been wonderful to me and when this person is not around I really miss them. I can now do things on my own but i have made a life long bond with this person. I would hate to see them give up on their goals because to much is expected of them.
ReplyDeleteI know of people who have been told they have to be doing doctorate level work.
DeleteMaybe that Peer is the wrong fit now, even if it was once a good one. Encouraging someone to stretch is often a good thing, but should come with support towards that growth. Maybe your mentor would benefit from also talking with other friends (Peers or not) with similar interests and getting support in addition to what their Peer is providing. Or even, if it's not working to that extent, considering the hard decision of to discussing changing or ending the Associate relationship with that Peer. As tough as it can be to lose your household, sometimes it's healthier in the long run to step out of a bad relationship, do the things that make you happy with the people you enjoy, and maybe find a better place in the long run.
DeleteI am in utter awe of the peerages. There are a few here and there whom I may not believe deserving of the acclaim, but in my eyes, they're not truly peers, which to me means someone to strive to be like. To me, they don't actually exist as such. They are merely noise in my background. Maybe it's my special crazy that allows me to do so, but I turn down their volume. Their words have no weight with me. As far as someone seeking peerage, I'm cool with it. It's human nature to want to attain glory. I wish them all fruition of their journey. It's not for me. My heart is delicate and bruises easily. I'll just keep on making and recreating every bit of history and art I can, gathering information on how to do so from my Scadian friends. It makes me happy. Happiness is hard to find. I found it in the SCA.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the SCA and the East Kingdom exist to relieve loneliness, boredom, and isolation. I feel that this lady is confusing her conclusions with her observations. It certainly sounds like she’s very hurt because she feels excluded and can’t enjoy participating in this game. I have certainly been there in the past. It’s a common malady but I think it’s based on some false assumptions that can be cleared up by real life experience. I have some advice and a few suggestions:
ReplyDeleteI think it's dangerously oversimplified to assert that peers are all the same: all of them stuck-up and unapproachable. I remind you that they are individuals who each arrived via a different path. They were recognized as peers—but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t plenty of as-yet-unrecognized peers walking around right now without an emblem on their chests. In many instances it is a matter of time and chance instead of worthiness and contribution. Look around and identify some of these unself-conscious unsung heros.
Peers put their pants on one leg at a time. They also have to pee—and poop. As far as I can tell many peers are simply by nature shy and avoid situations where they might be hurt—just like you and me--so they may not be an outgoing life-of-the-party sort. Being a student doesn’t in itself make one an effective teacher: similarly it takes peers time to learn how to be an effective ambassador. Meanwhile try to help them out. Be friendly to the person—not the emblem. Stop imagining you’re unwanted and unworthy. Stop putting peers on pedestals. When you abase yourself because you “think you’re not worthy” you can actively make yourself invisible—then you become sad and angry when nobody notices that you’ve silently retreated to a pool of shadow in a corner. It’s self-destructive and unfair. And it doesn’t make anybody happy.
Generally, athletes, musicians and academic researchers tend to hang with those of similar interests because they understand the cost and perseverance it takes to reach a high level of skill. Time spent achieving mastery is time not spent socializing and developing great PR skills so you have to work a bit to get to know knights and other peers. Start talking to people who are also doing interesting things and swap some stories of experiences, tips and unexpected consequences. Find some workshop, gathering or occasion to meet and befriend a peer. It might be fun.
The suggestions follow.
Set out to investigate every activity you can. Even if it may not be your passion (at first) it is somebody’s passion and that’s worth finding out about. Go to archery, thrown weapons and dance practice. You can meet knights and proto-knights, Masters of Defense and proto-MoDs at practices. They don’t mind an audience and cookies are a sure lure. The more interest you show by simply turning up at practice regularly the more curious they become about you. Try it out. Take ‘em up on offers to try out an aspect of their sport: whack a pell or do footwork drills. Learn to be an astute spectator. Volunteer with your Minister of Lists. Build bridges. It’s not a closed group but you have to show you’re open to interactions because they won’t push themselves at you.
DeleteGO to local meetings, practices and workshops. Become an officer or deputy. Volunteer to organize an activity or run a workshop. It’s nerve wracking at first but the feeling of accomplishment is unbeatable.
Make stuff for the Royal toy chest, for largesse, or localevents, friends & for yourself. Work on group projects or at least in company.
• Practice needlework making Queen’s favor’s or award medallions. They don’t have to be perfect but they do need to be a vehicle for passing good feelings around. “Imperfect” is the mark of hand made and handmade is period-- machine made perfection is jarring to the eye and hand.
• Make site tokens.
• Practice illumination by making note cards for the royal household.
• Make stuffed animals or toy balls out of wool or felt.
• Develop one bardic performance piece so you can contribute to a bardic circle. Dance!
• Wear garb that pleases you and makes you feel good. At least once try dressing to stand out instead of dressing to be unobtrusive.
Start writing people in. Find people doing cool stuff. Make notes keep records. Look at award descriptions, write and submit recommendations. This whole cranky award system is based on amateurs remembering to write and send recommendations to the Royals. If your recommendation is selected for action then you will be asked to help schedule a court for the award to be made and you may be contacted by a scribe (someone playing this game just like you) and asked to help them make a personalized scroll. Your recommendation letter will also be used to help the royals make a meaningful ceremony for this recognition. By no means all of your recommendations will be selected for action but if you don’t make them, good things can’t happen for these people.
There are a variety of reasons why a recommendation doesn’t succeed and most of the time you simply won’t know why—sometimes it’s just a matter of timing. (I’m running just under 40% success). Don’t take it personally but be persistent. Consider the award description and decide if what you’re recommending is the best choice and if you’ve been specific in giving examples of why you think yout candidate deserves this recognition. If you’re unsure, find a private moment and ask a member of that order for advice. Include new accomplishments in your next draft and re-submit the recommendation to another set of royals. Eventually you’ll get your way and it is a terrific feeling to see someone whose work you admire recognized in court for that accomplishment!
So that’s the way I aim to play our game: Get out there. Appreciate others’ journey and successes. Share your own. Take pride in your efforts. Feed yourself. Accept and remember every honest plausible compliment.(I promise you that they’re not just saying it to be nice.) Envision other people as being just as shy awkward or sensitive as you feel. Learn to wink. Put yourself in somebody else’s place. Aim to be a bigger person. Say “yes” to opportunities that come your way. Create opportunities for others, too. Work together in groups and don’t martyr yourself alone—because this is a society not a sweatshop. Bronwen Rose of Greyling called Brose Contact me if I can be of help.
I'm wondering if the "I'm not the one looking for a peerage" got missed.
DeleteIt's not about seeking peerage, it's about isolation. Your post is all about disappointment but it doesn't offer examples of your exclusion. You are not interested in participating but you are raging because you feel left out. Time to choose: either lead, follow or get off the dance floor. There's no sense complaining you are overlooked when you are not willing to participate. It's still not about peerage. It's about playing. --Brose
DeleteUmm...I'm not complaining about being overlooked or left out. The "raging" is about the others that I see or hear about who are so focused on the award, or so upset at not being recognized, that they stop playing entirely. It's about the way the peerage as a whole is being perceived from the outside, no matter how wonderful the individual Peers I know are.
DeleteI'm saying the things that others I know can't...because they are afraid that if they speak out publicly, they will be forever barred from the peerage they aspire to...because publicly criticizing the peerage is not part of demonstrating those PLQ's.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMy first real long time interaction with a Laurel (actually, a pair of laurels and a third who lived/played close by), I had no idea they were Laurels. So willing to help, and gracious. Same with a Pelican, a few knights, a Duke or two, couple of Counts - all of whom I count as very good friends.
ReplyDeleteI haven't had the experience that you've had.
Kiriena (playing since 1986)
I think you read too much into what people's motives are. The student-peer relationship is intensely personal, and only the two people involved know everything about it.
ReplyDeleteIf you're interested in the art of wood burning, does that mean you should only apprentice to a Laurel in wood burning? Dance laurels only take students in dance? Can I, as a primarily late period costumer, not learn from someone who has a Laurel in jewelr?
I have to agree with Stucki above me...mayhap there IS some toadyism and such and the need to become a peer, but perhaps you might be reading motives into situations that may not be appropriate??
ReplyDeleteI am a Laurel, I was apprenticed to a Costume Research Laurel, but wase recognized for Animal Husbandry, yeah CHICKENS...still a lot of research, so I cling to that tie... I have apprentices who do NOT do chickens...or rather do some poultry, but do other livestock...or do NO livestock but cook, thereby USING the livestock..
I WAS also a protege' but surrendered my belt at my elevation, for a peer should not be in fealty to another peer...but am still a student of him because he can see better than myself what is needed and what I can do...
I'm so sorry you feel this way. It is a sorrowful evaluation of how the SCA is perceived. I understand what you are saying.
ReplyDeleteI am both a Laurel and a Pelican. I was neither apprentice nor protege. But I have had a number of both in my time. Few have really needed my tuition in the arts or in service. They already had skills and some limited experience locally. But several did require some personal encouragement to be able to practice their skills in wider spheres. A few needed more polished social skills in order to be able to run an event without ruffling feathers or to take on a creative commission and please their patron with the results. Dealing with mundane authorities to run an event requires levels of maturity, probity and diplomacy that many people lack.
It's not always about passing on my skills, although it's very rewarding for me when I do.
I am always heartbroken when I see a talented person work hard and not have their work publicly acknowledged.
We create what we do. We research it, make it, organize it, make it happen. If we don't acknowledge other people who do these things we will soon be naked, hungry, and bored. New talent is our life blood.
I have seen people rejected by the peerage orders because they didn't have the interpersonal skills necessary to practice their talents in a big public way. In some kingdoms, these skills fall into a nebulous category of "qualities becoming a peer". These are what we all aspire to. Courtesy, chivalry, generosity, kindness, boldness, true humility. These qualities enable artists to teach well without hurting their students. They enable autocrats to delegate without giving offence. They enable fighters to fight without harm.
Having a talent is good. Having a talent that is trained is better. Being a nice person who shares that talent is better yet. That is what the peerage about. They aren't boy scout merit badges, nor are they rewards for just showing up.
The orders can only advise on names to Their Highnesses if those names are written in. In the East Kingdom, all the names on this reign's list drop off for the next reign. If those names are resubmitted, we continue to discuss, watch, advise. And yes, sometimes reject. Talent people who are assholes cannot represent our Society in a public way. We've been down that road, it wasn't good.
Some people only see the SCA as a costumed cocktail party. For some of us, it is so much more.
If you like, find me on Facebook. I'm the only Linda Anfuso. In the SCA I am Megan ni Laine. I would be very happy to continue this discussion. I have seen what you are talking about, and I am trying to change it.
Kind Regards,
Linda/Megan
First of all, I'm very glad you were able to enjoy your event, especially after dreading it. I'm sorry for your disillusionment. I know that nothing anyone says will bring back the shine to your tarnished visions of former days. I fear that this is why so many of us fall into the "good old days" trap.
ReplyDeleteAnd this subject is very much worth a look. One can't ever see how one's own group looks from the outside, so we need to keep looking at ourselves to make sure that what we project is what we mean to.
I think it's important to *not* idolize the peerages; I think very few individuals can stand up to the magnifying glass of idolization, and, therefore, even fewer *groups* can stand up to it. I tend to respect most the people who continue to "do their thing" after their elevation, showing that they weren't just doing it for the cookie. And I very much respect anyone who wants to learn to truly embody any of the "Peer-like qualities".
I think the issue of a Laurel having apprentices who do work outside the Laurel's own expertise has been answered by previous posters, so I won't add to that specifically. However, I will add that each of us needs to *learn* how to be a Peer. We have so few real-life role models, and even fewer of us have any close at hand. Some need the model of a particular person, or to have someone to go to who will most definitely *not* laugh at us or deride us for not already knowing "how to do it".
Human beings just generally trust information we get from those we know, so the Royalty tends to particularly trust the information they get from the Peers, because the Peers are folks who have already been in the SCA for a while, even if the Royalty are fairly new themselves. So anybody brought forward at a Peerage meeting is likely to be given an award soon, even if it's not an elevation to a Peerage. Nominating worthy souls who work quietly is a vitally important task that *anyone* can take on. (It's really fun to collude with someone's spouse for their membership number, using sneakiness for good. ::grin:: and some kingdoms have on-line award nomination forms in order to do just that.)
I hope you continue to have the happy surprises of enjoying events, and, eventually, the happier surprise of realizing you aren't dreading them.
VALE
Theadora Perplexa
I completely agree I have been in some 20+ year's and form all the thing's I've have seen and heard it make's me sick to know just how right you are, too many thing's are about who you know and not what you know.
ReplyDeleteFantastic!
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ศัลยกรรมเสริมคาง
ReplyDeleteอีกหนึ่งศัลยกรรมหรืออีกหนึ่งทางออกสำหรับปัญหาของคนรูปคางสั้น รูปคางผิดรูปผิดร่างคนที่มีคางสั้น คางเล็ก คางปราศจากความนูนหรือคางร่นมาด้านข้างหลัง ทำให้บริเวณใบหน้ามองกลม หน้าสั้น ศูนย์กลางของบริเวณใบหน้ามองกว้าง คอดูมีเนื้อเยอะแยะ ซึ่งเป็นรูปลักษณ์ที่ไม่สวยสวย
ซึ่งปัญหาพวกนี้สามารถปรับปรุงแก้ไขโดยการเสริมคาง ทำให้สามารถเห็นรูปคางได้แจ้งชัดบริเวณใบหน้าด้านล่างก็จะมองมีมิติ แล้วก็เป็นการปรับรูปหน้าให้วีเชฟได้รูปรูปร่างตามความอยากของคนป่วย แม้กระนั้นดังนี้ขึ้นกับหมอผู้ผ่าตัดจะเป็นผู้ประเมินรูปร่างความเหมาะสมของรูปหน้าด้วย
เลเซอร์หน้าใส
เลเซอร์ลดริ้วรอย
เลเซอร์รอยสิว
Honestly speaking, I totally agree with this!
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